Sleep for the Whole Family: From Newborn Days to Preschool Nights

In our most sleep deprived moments, our children will teach us exactly what we need in order to learn and grow into who we were created to be. These are the loving lessons we will learn whether we were wanting to or not. I'm Irene Gouge, your sleep coach, and I'm on mission to educate parents how to help their young children sleep. Welcome to the journey. So we are here at our pregnancy and parenthood event. Gonna do our first discussion on sleep. We have different panelists here with different perspectives. I'm Lizzie Wilson, the founder of Mama Tribe Village, and I have five panelists with me today. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves, starting with Irene. Hi, my name's Irene Gouge. I'm with Loving Lessons Sleep Solutions, where I help families with newborns to school-aged children get sleep through a holistic lens, where we're gonna figure out the root cause, create a plan, and talk about next steps to get everyone sleeping.

Hi, my name's Amanda Smith. I own Hineni Birth and Beyond. I am a birth and postpartum doula with a strong emphasis on education and evidence-based information, helping parents understand their choices and understand what the medical professionals do and say so that they have an idea of what's happening through pregnancy, labor, delivery, and then help them in their home in the postpartum hours, days, and weeks to get settled in. Hi, everyone. I'm Sarah Parise, and I am a postpartum personal trainer and accountability coach. I work in the field of fitness, food, and finding your best self in every age and stage of motherhood, and my whole specialty is that I help you carve out 2% of the day for you, 28 minutes. Yes, we can find it. No, it doesn't have to be all at once. I am Courtney Miller.

I own The Better Boob Lactation. We service the entire Raleigh triangle area and beyond. We offer in-home, office, and virtual visits for lactation. I'm Anna Hussey. I am the owner of Little Oaks Rooted, a maternal and family wellness brand. I am a certified postpartum doula, positive parenting coach, and early childhood program consultant. I offer in-home services and virtual. Wonderful. Thank you. So our first discussion's going to be on sleep for the whole family. We're going to talk about this from the newborn days to the preschool nights. And so the... What we're going to have is a family scenario that I'll present to you guys, and then we'll have some questions, and we will answer those and kind of go from different perspectives from the different panelists.

So here is our family scenario. We have a seven-month-old baby and a four-year-old child in this family. The baby is waking several times overnight and often needs help returning to sleep. The preschooler has started delaying bedtime, waking during the night, and coming into the parents' room. One parent is responding to most of these nighttime awakenings, while the other one is getting up early for work. Both parents are exhausted, and they're disagreeing about the routines, responding to crying, and setting nighttime boundaries. They're also receiving conflicting advice about feeding, sleeping, naps, all the things, and whether the oldest child's behavior is connected to this new baby's arrival. They want to meet both children's needs, of course, while creating healthier rest for the entire family. So the first question we will propose is, what stands out to you about this family's sleep challenges, and what would you want to understand before you offer any guidance? Anybody want to take that first question?

I'll dive in. Okay. Let's hear it. I think from my perspective, I always want to know how the mom is feeling about things and how depleted she is. Because it's not just the sleep deprivation- but it's the depletion in general. Like, what is mom eating? Right. How is she getting rest? And kind of from that side of things. The emotional side, of course, too, of the amount of pressure that's on all of us when you have a baby and bring baby home. And everyone's always wondering, like, "Is baby getting fed? What is the sleep schedule of baby?" And my whole perspective is let's flip it and let's see how the mom is doing.

And before we can deal with any of the conflict, we have to realize where everyone's coming from and that we are all dealing with it from a sleep-deprived situation. Right. It's like the you can't pour from an empty cup kind of scenario, right? 100%. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Sarah. We're looking at the whole family. We want to make sure... One of the most important things, I think, in the first couple of weeks that I talk with parents about is how we're going to get you a bulk amount of sleep, whether that means we're taking shifts whether we're getting hands-on help in the home, what that looks like because, yes, you cannot pour out of an empty cup.

So those parents need sleep, they need nutrition, they need hydration. And then in this scenario that we're talking about here, again, yes, I would want to come in and look at the whole family. Find out what kind of dynamic they had with the four-year-old before the baby arrived. What kind of dynamic is happening after, and then where is mom and dad's mental status with being able to handle these wake-up situations. And is the baby waking up or is the four-year-old coming in because they're feeling insecure about what's happening because mom and dad are so stressed out- or sleep deprived. And so those would be definitely questions that I would come in and ask. Yeah. How could the parents divide these responsibilities?

Is there a way they could kind of tackle it together? Yeah. So a lot of times families will reach out to me as a sleep coach and be like, "Let's help fix the sleep." And the first place where I usually recommend families to step back and look is, let's see what that family dynamic is. Because we have to figure out what are those roles and responsibilities that we're going to have. And I oftentimes will share with families the purple house analogy. And what I mean by that is usually, like, one parent came from the red house, and another parent- came from the blue house, and together, they're building their purple house. And so now we can look at what do we learn, what were our values, preferences, and priorities.

And now we can work to understand maybe where the misunderstandings are taking place and the communication that comes up. Because oftentimes sleep is just a symptom- of something else happening. So oftentimes if we can step back and look at what is actually being communicated, especially around sleep, around feeding, then we can get things started. And my first question would be like, "What do the feeding routines look like so that we can get the sleep in place?" Yeah. Okay. So we wanna address, of course, the feeding. That is a big question that I get, especially with the baby. Not so much the four-year-old. I stay in the newborn realm of things and baby sort of things. But I, as a lactation consultant, sleep obviously comes up a lot. And then of course, like milk supply, how are we feeding baby? Is baby being fed with a bottle with breast milk, with formula, a combination of feeding?

And no, there's no right or wrong answer to that. It's just figuring out where, how is that baby being fed and how, what are our goals with that? Mental health is such a big stressor. You know, like mental health and sleep kinda go hand in hand. If mom is not getting sleep, again, we can't pour from an empty cup. So that's where I kind of can come in and help, how do we make mom get more sleep, but then also honoring her feeding goals at the same time. It's not always a cut and dry, black and white answer. There's usually a lot of components to it. And so that's where I usually can come in a little bit and help with the feeding sides of things, as Irene said.

But then also you know, okay, how often is baby waking up? Do we need to look at daytime feedings? You know, there's lots of steps to that to figure out- helping that baby and helping that mom. Thank you. I want to piggyback off Irene. I really loved your analogy about the different houses. That's beautiful. That's kind of where my approach falls is really, again, looking at the family dynamics, the family shared values and goals, and the individual child. Like, what can we do to divide up these roles and responsibility that are meeting the needs of each individual child? And that may look like alternating nights. That may look like working in shifts, or one parent is with one child and another parent is with another child. So there are different strategies that can work there, but really looking at the family dynamics is key, I think. Yeah. A lot of this almost feels like a lot of families have to be reactive.

Like, they find themselves in situations. Is there anything that families can do before a baby arrives? Maybe they could set expectations or they can help maybe recruit services before a baby comes that could kind of prepare them for success, versus being reactive when they find themselves with a train fully off the tracks, versus, you know, being proactive. Do y'all have any insights for that? Since I have the mic, I'll just-... Mention really quickly, I think, you know, starting healthy foundations from the beginning is- you know, key. There are small things that you can do, gentle shaping at the very beginning. S- you know, creating a cozy, cool environment swaddling white noise and just continuing to be predic- having predictable routines and being consistent, and remembering that consistency doesn't mean perfection.

So there's not gonna be a perfect night of rest, and the goal is just to kind of pick up on that routine the next night if things don't actually go the way that you had hoped. Coming from a perspective of I have three boys and so I've kind of been through this scenario as a lactation consultant, but also as just a parent, a mom. I found before at least my youngest, we were struggling a lot with my older two, and so we knew going back to, like, how can we set up the family before the baby arrives? And one of the biggest things that we've done is the light, the red light, green light. And that really helped my boys know what ti- you know, they wake up in the middle of the night.

Well, if it's still red, they gotta stay in their room. They need to go back to sleep. And so that's really helped our family by, like, we got them set up before baby came- so that when baby came... 'Cause it is hard. If baby is in, you know, we recommend babies share mo- you know, the parents' room for at least the first six months. And so that's where that jealousy can kinda come. "Well, why is baby in there? Why can't I be in there?" And so there's a lot of that back and forth, and so that's really helped. At least from a personal perspective, the light has really helped us. We also use the light. We still use the light. We have a seven and 10-year-old.

So it doesn't necessarily expire. It's an easy thing. It's an easy thing. I mean, you just walk past me and- Yeah... Okay, I need to go back to sleep. Yeah. From our personal experience, I love the conversations before. I think we're all, like, really great parents until you become a parent. Yeah. My husband and I were true to that statement. So we had all these conversations of what roles and responsibilities were gonna shift and change. We were living in California. We didn't have support. We didn't have any family nearby. So my two pieces of advice are have the conversations, and then really just come back to that you are a team.

Correct. Yeah. On our hardest days, we're like, "We're still a team. We're doing this together." Same goals. Yeah. Same goals. Our same... Even though we have... We're coming from different experiences, and our roles change drastically, even more than you can ever anticipate- when you become a parent. But same team, I think, was a really good strong foundation just for our marriage also- and starting to build our family. And then the other thing I encourage mamas to do is learn how to say yes. Yes, say yes to the meal train. Say yes to people coming over and doing your laundry, changing your sheets. I had a good girlfriend that came over, and she just stripped all the beds one morning.

Didn't even really ask me. She just showed up, and she's like, "I'm gonna g- just do your sheets," because she knew that that was one thing that just wasn't gonna get done. She washed all our blankets and our towels, and it was, like, such a gift. And in the moment, I remember feeling so guilty, being like- "I should be able to do this." No, you shouldn't. You should really practice saying yes. Yeah, that's great advice. Absolutely. So I'm just gonna say yes, all of these things are absolutely wonderful, and the other thing that I think a lot of times we miss as parents is that pre-education. So getting the education on, you know birth and labor is great, and that's what we all gear up for, and then labor happens, and now you have this brand-new baby that you have to bring home, and you're unprepared.

Even if you think you're prepared- you're often very unprepared. And so I think getting that education, setting up, like you said, setting up that meal train ahead of time when your brain is still functioning, when you still have sleep that you're having setting up those hands to come and help you, hiring that postpartum doula. Sometimes it's the first two or three weeks that you need, but sometimes it's the first three to six months that you need. And so just, you know, tapering that off as you need. I always tell people my job is to work myself out of a job. So what I want to do is come in, you know, heavy in the beginning and then taper off as parents become more confident, understanding, and all of that.

So having those extra hands is definitely... If you have lots of family in the area, saying yes, yes to them- coming over, not to hold the baby necessarily, but to do the things that are on your mind so that Mom can have those mental loads taken off because those can be very detrimental to her own health. So yeah, so all that prep and pre-getting ready for that postpartum and newborn care part of it, I think, is a piece that's missed often- and is very important. Yeah. And one last thing that I'm going to add to all the amazing suggestions is oftentimes when it comes to sleep, we think about what's the schedule or what's the method, and what I actually encourage families to think about is the sleep framework, where sleep means how am I showing up, leading, evaluating, empowering, and playing through the day.

So no matter what age or stage I'm in, how am I showing up? How am I taking care of myself, being that calm, kind, and firm leader through it all? And part of that means that, like, whatever season we're in, the best decision we can make around sleep is oftentimes first thing in the morning creating a consistent wake time. Because that actually is going to set the tone- and rhythm for the whole day. So fresh air, fresh light, that oftentimes can shift so many things. So it doesn't have to be this very complicated thing. We can just take one step back and figure out where do I lean in to get the most bang for my buck.

And I think that's a good question to ask for you. So our next piece of this is what is a realistic expectation for these ages? Like, you've got a new baby, maybe this baby is, what, seven months old, and you have a four-year-old, so what would be a realistic expectation at these ages for these babies when it comes to sleep? Yeah. So I would want to know and understand, like, with this particular family is, like, what time are we starting the day? What does that look like, and can we get them into a rhythm that works for mom and dad? You know, looking at their schedules, figuring out that rhythm, and then looking at the mealtimes because feeding and sleep help regulate the body.

And so when those things are in place, that's how we can set the tone, and oftentimes, like, really the first place we can start, wake up first thing in the morning, fresh air, sunshine, eat breakfast outside. Nurse or bottle feed outside- because that's going to help our mental health wellbeing. It's going to squeeze in our 28 minutes. I usually encourage parents 14 minutes, 1%-... Of your day. Yeah. Take care of yourself but, you know, start small and build up from there. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Just Irene has some great points there and a very similar tactics that I talk to parents too is just... And normally I actually start with bedtime because that seems to be the one that-

Most new parents struggle with. So but I love that, and I'm gonna file that away for-... For future reference. 'Cause a lot of times it's like, okay, well, how is your day ending? You know, are we ever... Is everybody screaming at the end of the day? Is everybody stressed out before they go to sleep for the night? And that's gonna dictate, like, how that night goes. But it's also naps during the day. So a four-year-old may be taking a nap, a four-year-old may just need some rest time. But also- important to talk about what that looks like and what your schedule looks like. 'Cause naps for all kids are gonna look a little bit different compared to what mom's schedule looks like, what the rhythm of your family and what your household looks like.

But getting naps in versus, you know, kids staying up for hours and hours and hours and just being so exhausted by the time- they go to bed. So I've been looking at it from the other perspective, but now I have a little bit of new perspective to look at it. Yeah. And for the sleep component, I defer to my sleep expert- Yes. On how much sleep a four-year-old should get. But on my side of things, I wanna know how much activity the four-year-old is getting also. I know when I had my second daughter, my two and a half year old was not getting enough activity, so going to bed was hard- Yeah... 'cause she wasn't getting that movement that she needed.

Yeah. In those early days, it's very hard- to physically get out of the house. So even planning play dates, or if there's someone else that can take them somewhere to get their energy out, can really make a huge difference. And if they are resting, yes, that, not necessarily napping at 4:00- Yep but having that downtime and having that break in the day. Yeah. We used to say a rest is a break in the middle of the day. Yeah. And they would go and they could play quietly or read- Yeah... But it wasn't full on, like- 24/7 activity time. Right. But yeah. I think that predictability is where kids really thrive.

Yeah. You know, having that predictable structure and they know- what to expect and it's safe, they know what's coming, I think is- undervalued. You know, for a lot of families, they don't realize how important that structure is for the kids' mental wellbeing, physical wellbeing. Right. To know what's coming, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And if you can set it up before baby comes, it's not like, oh, baby comes, now you get a rest time. Yeah. Yeah. If you can set it up even during pregnancy. Can I share a little something? There's actually a lot of research that talks about children should actually nap or have rest time until they go to kindergarten.

And establishing that rhythm is, like, parent happy hour. And so it really is valuable to- Yeah... Practice this all along the way. Like, children sometimes will nap... Like, for a four-year-old, they can nap every second day or every third day, and that is normal. It's inconvenient for us as parents. Yeah. But it is very normal to do. You know, and for, like, the seven-month-old, like, they could be on two naps, they could be on three naps, but they could also be on four naps, and all of those are normal nap patterns. So it's really important to understand, like, who we are as a family, what is our rhythm, and what do you want that to look like as parents?

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Then I can touch on, so, you know, the biggest question we get is how the baby's sleeping, sleeping through the night, and that is all gonna depend on the naps. That's also gonna depend on the baby and the temperament. What I've learned is there's, like, my middle child, he ran on a lot less sleep. His sleep needs were a lot different than some other babies. And so I really try to stress that to parents that just because your baby is still waking at night, night feedings, especially if we are breastfeeding, are biologically normal. We want those. Even at seven months, eight months, night feedings can be biologically normal.

Now, on the other hand, there are some babies that sleep longer stretches quicker and others that don't, and all, just like the naps, all of it is normal. And sometimes it's needed for your milk supply. Sometimes it's baby needs those feedings at night for the milk supply and just overall nutrition. So there's, I think, what I learned when I was a first-time mom is that I felt like I was failing my baby because my baby wasn't sleeping through the night- at a certain age. And then when I realized he needs me at this time, and that's okay, and he still needs these night feedings, and those are very biological and very normal, I think then my stress was like, okay.

Yeah. That. I think that's a good point 'cause I have three kiddos as well, and, like, each kid had different needs, right? Yes. And so, like- Yeah... What worked for your first kid may or may not work for your second- Yeah, yeah... Or your third. Like, you're the new parent every time. You have a, like, experience and you have a little bit of confidence- Yeah going into your second and your third. And it's hard. And it's good, but they're different, right? Yeah, and it's hard with comparing yourself- Right, right... To other family member- And then there's social media... You know, families or friends or social media- Yes... That they're like, "My baby was sleeping, you know, 12 hours at three months."

Yeah. And then, like, I have a 10-month-old right now. We are not doing that. Right. And that's okay. Like, I've learned with my third, I'm like, that is okay. Yeah. He needs those night feedings right now. The spectrum of normal is so wide- And, and-... For all milestones, I think, right? He'll, they'll eventually sleep through the night. They'll eventually be college, you know, teenagers and college students that are sleeping until noon, so, like- Right... It'll come. So treasure, you know, I think when I shifted my brain and my thought of he needs me at this time and this is okay- and this is not a forever thing- Right. Yeah. It's a season

Then that relief, that stress relief really helped me that I was like, "I will sleep again one day." Yeah. Not today. Not today. Okay. I think I recently had a family with a similar scenario that I helped coach through really the dynamic between switching and adding a new family member- and going from one child to the second child. And there was a lot of things that she was like, "I thought I could do this, and I thought I could do that," but they're both very much at, you know, it was a eight-month-old and a four-year-old. Yeah. And they're very much at different developmental stages. And so those needs are gonna look very different balancing those. But just really going back to the individual family and creating routines that are going to be sustainable for your family- is really, you know, the goal.

Yeah. So we're gonna do one final question to wrap up our session here. So in one sentence or in maybe a few sentences, what would you like families to remember about building healthy rest when children have different needs? Like, how would you support those families or encourage them? So the one takeaway is that you know, really focusing on your individual family, shared values and goals, coming up with a concrete plan, and looking at your individual child- and creating those healthy sleep habits. Kind of to piggyback off of that and what I had said before, like, every baby, every child is going to have a different sleep temperament and a different just temperament in general, and you're not failing because you aren't, like, checking the box by a certain time.

We just have to figure out, like, again, what works for your family, what works for your kiddo- and then, like, what works for your family- Yeah, it's all individual... As a whole. The one tip that I give to my mamas that I work with that are in this stage is if you can get a stretch of three hours of sleep, it can make a huge difference. And for people that are listening that don't have- Three hopes... Three hours, like, happening. Three hours, like, that's it. Change your life. Like, that feels like a lot when you're a new parent. And if you can get that stretch, so for my family it worked out, I would go to bed at 8:00, my husband would do the last feed, whether that was, you know, breast milk or formula, and then I would get that stretch, that three-hour stretch, and it was like I was a new person getting it.

So if you and your family can work out Mom just getting a stretch, because a rested mom is a way better mom and a way better family. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and so my takeaway too is we're not meant to do this alone. We are meant- to do this as a village, and having those extra hands, having that extra help so that you can do things like get three or four hours of sleep at one, sleep session- versus having it all broken up. And then stay off social media, for goodness sakes. Don't compare yourself to the mom who's over there doing, like, her, you know, eye masks at night, and she's got the cute pajamas on, and her hair is all up. The fact that she set up a camera and is recording herself getting out of bed, and she looks great, like, let's just dismiss that.

That's Hollywood. You know, that's the one in a million mom that actually has it all together because- Or she's getting a lot of help... Or she's getting a lot of help. So that's like her second job is to videotape herself. Let's not compare ourselves to those, and know that, like everybody has said, everybody's family has different dynamics. Everybody's family comes from different backgrounds. And so your child may sleep four times a day at 20-minute increments, or your child might sleep 12 hours a night when they're three weeks old, and all of that is in the realm of normal, and normal is a big realm. It's a huge spectrum.

And I was gonna say, don't go to Google, ChatGPT- Yes... Claude- Yes... 'cause they have no children. Yes. And so we should notice who our children are. Like, notice the people right there in front of you, understand what they're communicating- and think about how you're showing up and leading yourself- and everybody to rest. Because the more we calm down and let go of the schedules, let go of the wake windows, which are not evidence-based, the more sleep we can actually get when we notice what's actually happening and trust ourselves in that process. Yeah. One of the main takeaways, I think from a panelist perspective, just a parent's perspective, is just being willing to accept the help. You know, whether that's from your family, your community, your coworkers, or whether you need to bring in somebody from these, you know, perspectives, so the outside doula or a lactation consultant or a family consultant, a personal trainer, a food, a meal prepper, anybody, just be willing to accept that help or ask for that help 'cause you were not meant to do this alone.

And one of the beautiful things that each of these ladies has provided today is a resource that you can access now. So in the description below, you'll see a link available to each of these, but I'll let them tell you what you'll find below. So one of the things that families want to know is like, how can I help my little one sleep without sleep training? And that is what I'm offering you. There's five tips that I share with my postpartum doula clients and sleep coaching clients. And so you can grab that, and you can start implementing these five small steps to make adjustments and get sleep no matter what age and stage you're in.

My takeaway is nutrition and wellness guide. So it's what you can eat to promote sleep, to provide relaxation, and get your fitness, your food, and your recharge in these early days. My takeaway is a how do I know if my baby is getting enough? That is a big question that I get. So there is about six or seven things on my little freebie guide that shows you, yes, my baby is getting enough is content in all of the things to make-- set yourself up for success. My takeaway is a family wellness map. So it is a map of all the different areas in family life that support family dynamics such as rest, and it gives you a guide to follow through and then determine what is it that I'm missing right now? What piece of this map is, am I lacking? And what's one step I can take today to make a difference

Yeah, so I'm going to offer a discounted postpartum newborn education. So if you connect with me, we will get you guys set up so that you can get that education before baby comes and get set up for a positive homecoming and hopefully your first couple of months. Wonderful. Thank you all so much for being a part of this discussion, and thank you all for being here. Thanks for tuning into today's show. You can see all of the details and show notes below. And as you go out into your day, I hope that you'll make it your mission to be calm, confident, and rested as you lead today. Sweet dreams.